This is "From a Different Point of View," a feature where I discuss a comic book series with other people. Ever since the pandemic began, I've been doing twice-weekly reader chats about notable comic book crossovers, storylines or miniseries. We started with Secret Wars and then we did Knightfall and now we're starting with Maximum Carnage!
Each time around, I'll share a chunk of our discussion.
When last we checked in on Maximum Carnage, we were discussing Spectacular Spider-Man #201, Maximum Carnage Part 5, "Over the Line," by J.M. DeMatteis and Sal Buscema, with letters by Joe Rosen and colors by Bob Sharen, edited by Danny Fingeroth and Rob Tokar.
Carnage has escaped from custody and gone on a rampage in Manhattan, along with Shriek, Doppelganger and his newest addition to the team, Demogoblin. Spider-Man, meanwhile, has teamed up with Venom and Black Cat to try to stop them (as well as Cloak, whose partner, Dagger, was seemingly murdered by Shriek), even though Mary Jane begs him to stop to keep himself safe.
The heroes had just recently suffered a loss against the villains and Venom and Black Cat are both upset that Spider-Man stayed behind to help them rather than chase after Carnage by himself.
What happens next?
Tom A.: Even after this argument where they supposedly come to an agreement, I'm still not entirely sure why Demogoblin is still on Team Carnage.
Writerboy: Because it's right here in the story outline!
Tom A.: I don't see how killing random people goes along with Demogoblin's goal of "purifying the world of sin."
Flavio Sette: DeMatteis’ take on Carnage and Shriek seems kinda old-fashioned. Like to him, they’re a riff on ‘50s sitcom couples or something.
Brian Cronin: To explain why Demogoblin sticks around and...yeah...it doesn't quite mesh up.
Tom A.: Like, I'm sure Demogoblin could kill random people just fine by himself.
Sean Whitmore: And Demogoblin, of all people, has a pretty good shot at killing the rest of Team Carnage single-handedly, which I'm sure he'd love to do.
Writerboy: Yeah, Demo is here so Team Carnage has some internal conflict, but the source of that conflict means he wouldn't join in the first place
Brian Cronin: On the opposite side of things
Brian Cronin: I also don't buy Spider-Man's break with Venom and Black Cat.
Sean Whitmore: It's brought on by nothing.
Brian Cronin: "Okay, we're going to go after Carnage and the villains killing people."
Flavio Sette: When you think about it, Demogoblin would probably do an even better job if he took advantage of Carnage et al distracting the police.
Brian Cronin: "No, if I help you stop the killing, I'll be as bad as them for...reasons."
Sean Whitmore: "I will swallow my ethics and team up with Venom." He does so. "Now I will stop, even though nothing bad came of it."
Brian Cronin: Exactly.
Tom A.: "No, I was put into a moral dilemma where I had to choose between saving you or going after Carnage all alone and surely failing. Clearly this was a mistake."
Brian Cronin: And not only that, he knows that NOT helping likely IS leading to more death.
Brian Cronin: So...huh?
Brian Cronin: And, of course, those freakin' hurt ribs.
Tom A.: And Spider-Man hasn't even bothered seeking out help from anyone else yet.
Sean Whitmore: This one might just be another bad handoff from writer to writer; like JMD maybe assumed the team-up in the previous chapter went bad because of something bad Venom did .
Brian Cronin: Whoever thought that those ribs were a good idea is beyond me
Tom A.: Like, apparently they'll establish later that the Avengers and FF are out of town, but Peter hasn't been shown trying to contact them to find that out.
Flavio Sette: Maybe if Peter's ribs got cracked later on, that'd work better. But right now, EVERY single issue we have to be reminded that his ribs are cracked.
Tom A.: Doppelganger is sad that mommy and daddy are fighting.
Sean Whitmore: It's like one of those 70s issues where Peter breaks his arm and it stays in a sling for the next 3 issues.
Flavio Sette: Funny how other heroes are always out of town when stuff like this happens.
Brian Cronin: Sad Doppelganger is adorable.
Brian Cronin: Buscema is nailing these expressions on beings not known for expressiveness
Writerboy: I want to go on the record as not believing that Shriek and Carnage actually have sex with each other.
Writerboy: "Don't fight, it scares the Infinity War clone"
Flavio Sette: My favorite explanation for "why didn't the Avengers and the Fantastic Four intervene" is probably from Morrison's X-Men run, when he established Magneto called in a bomb threat and every hero in NY went to Australia and he trapped them under a force field.
Brian Cronin: Hmmm...do Carnage and Shriek have sex?
Flavio Sette: (When Magneto took over New York, I mean)
Tom A.: I'd personally rather not know.
Brian Cronin: It's a good question. I think it'd be likely that they did.
Sean Whitmore: Costume on or off?
Brian Cronin: But I think there's not really time for it in the crossover
Brian Cronin: So I'm going to go with no.
Sean Whitmore: Like, would Shriek even like him if he looked like ginger Walton Goggins?
Brian Cronin: I guess he keeps the mask on
Writerboy: By the way, is the "girl scout cookies" joke lifted from Addams Family, or did that not come out soon enough for this?
Flavio Sette: Which reminds me of that "We keep the masks on. It makes it better" line from All-Star Batman and Robin, when Batman hooks up with Black Canary.
Brian Cronin: The SEQUEL to Addams Family had MC Hammer in it
Brian Cronin: So I'm thinkin the original had to be before this, yeah
Flavio Sette: I think so too, yeah.
Flavio Sette: Addams Family Values came out in '93.
Flavio Sette: That's the sequel, right?
Brian Cronin: Yeah
Next time, we see a bizarre discussion between Peter and his dad. If you have any Maximum Carnage thoughts, feel free to share them at brianc@cbr.com!
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